Poker Players Alliance Forums » Ask Skallagrim

skallagrim, help!

(8 posts)
  • Started 3 months ago by prolax13
  • Latest reply from PokerIowa89

  1. prolax13
    Member

    Ok, so here's the situation:

    2 months ago I gave this kid I've never met IRL my stars PW to finish a 5050. Then, from August 13-18, somsone logged into my FTP account ((pw happened to be the same, and i never changed them once giving it out :/ ) anyway they would log on while i was sleeping, typically between the hours of 4 and 8 AM, and lost $ in the sum of around $22,000. Now I got in touch with full tilt, they matched the IP address that logged in to my account with another player's account, the player I gave my pw to 2 months before. Here are some of full tilt's emails.

    Hello Anthony,

    Thank you for your response.

    Your account was accessed by a computer that is primarily used by "villain". Rest assured we have taken appropriate action against this player.

    Below I have included all logins from New Jersey, since August 11th. Please let us know if this does the job. Keep in mind all login times are in Eastern time so that you have the ability to cross reference this with your account activity spreadsheet.

    Player ID WAN IP Address Outcome Login Datetime Disconnect Datetime
    holdplz 70.21.188.157 Success 11-Aug-2008 11:19:16 11-Aug-2008 11:20:39
    holdplz 71.250.65.159 Success 12-Aug-2008 08:29:06 12-Aug-2008 08:29:20
    holdplz 71.250.65.159 Success 12-Aug-2008 10:49:02 12-Aug-2008 10:49:29
    holdplz 71.250.65.159 Success 13-Aug-2008 04:40:19 13-Aug-2008 04:40:33
    holdplz 71.250.65.159 Success 13-Aug-2008 05:10:05 13-Aug-2008 05:56:44
    holdplz 71.250.65.159 Success 14-Aug-2008 05:11:31 14-Aug-2008 05:19:10
    holdplz 71.250.65.159 Success 14-Aug-2008 05:19:01 14-Aug-2008 05:51:45
    holdplz 71.250.65.159 Success 14-Aug-2008 05:52:07 14-Aug-2008 08:10:19
    holdplz 71.250.65.159 Success 14-Aug-2008 08:14:16 14-Aug-2008 08:14:38
    holdplz 71.250.65.159 Success 15-Aug-2008 04:10:00 15-Aug-2008 06:34:10
    holdplz 71.250.65.159 Success 17-Aug-2008 03:34:13 17-Aug-2008 03:35:30
    holdplz 71.250.65.159 Success 17-Aug-2008 03:41:42 17-Aug-2008 03:44:38
    holdplz 71.250.65.159 Success 17-Aug-2008 03:45:31 17-Aug-2008 03:51:20
    holdplz 71.250.65.159 Success 17-Aug-2008 04:05:39 17-Aug-2008 04:10:02
    holdplz 71.250.65.159 Success 17-Aug-2008 06:49:22 17-Aug-2008 07:51:25
    holdplz 71.250.65.159 Success 18-Aug-2008 04:41:23 18-Aug-2008 04:41:48
    holdplz 71.250.65.159 Success 18-Aug-2008 08:10:46 18-Aug-2008 08:24:25
    holdplz 71.250.65.159 Success 18-Aug-2008 13:14:48 18-Aug-2008 13:15:00
    holdplz 71.250.65.159 Success 18-Aug-2008 13:37:45 18-Aug-2008 13:44:42

    If there's anything else we can help you with, please feel free to ask. Best of luck at the tables!

    Regards,

    Madison
    Security and Fraud
    Full Tilt Poker

    Here's another email they sent in reply to a request for more information:

    Thanks again for your response.

    Realize that we have overwhelming technical evidence showing that your unauthorized logins took place on a computer primarily used by "jrleebee".

    Unfortunately due to strict security restraints, we are unable to release personal information about the individual in question.

    The detail that we can disclose is that this player primarily uses the IP address 71.250.65.159.

    Regards,

    Madison
    Security and Fraud
    Full Tilt Poker

    I would like to know your opinion on the matter and the best course of action you think I should take. Thank you very much for your time and help - I may have left out information, notsure though, ive been scattered for the past 48 hours. Here's a link to the 2+2 thread if you wish.

    http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=281019

    Thanks again.

    ~Anthony

    Posted 3 months ago #

  2. prolax13
    Member

    Hello Anthony,

    I can confirm that the computer in question is the exact same computer used by jrleebee. While we cannot disclose any of the technical evidence used to determine this, your logins use the same computer and IP address combination that this player's account has used in the past - not just the same IP address.

    I do sympathize with your experience Anthony. You are a valued member of our site and I am a big fan of your play on our site, however due to strict restraints, we are only able to reveal this player's username and IP address.

    As always, if there's anything else you need, please let us know.

    Regards,

    Madison
    Security and Fraud
    Full Tilt Poker

    Posted 3 months ago #

  3. Skallagrim
    Moderator

    Well prolax13, I wish I could say you have come to the right place, but there is not much I can suggest to help you out here.

    That the person whose screen name has been identified stole from you is pretty clear. This is not a gambling debt, nor some illegal transaction gone bad: the person got into an account of yours and took your money; that he then gambled with it is irrelevant from a legal point of view.

    So question one: do you want to go to the cops? First I would check your state to make sure you are not in one of the states where YOUR play is clearly illegal. If you get past that, maybe the police would be interested as the amount involved is pretty high. The police have ways of getting an ID from an IP address .... BUT, the police will worry about a) which state has jurisdiction over the offense b) whether another state's police will really help c) whether FTP will provide evidence that can be used in Court and d) whether knowing which computer stole from your account is proof enough of the individual who committed theft. Also the guy may claim you gave him permission by giving him your PW (a lie I know, but it puts it into the your word/his word category that police hate).... In other words, you can try reporting it to the police, but you may not get much help beyond "we'll look into it."

    You could try an sue the person in a civil case for the money he stole and lost. This is something you would initiate yourself so you at least dont have to worry about motivation. Yet the amount of detective work involved seems serious. Tech issues are beyond my expertise, but assuming you could identify the guy (there really is no practical way to force FTP to tell you more than it has; but how hard is it to track an IP address? I dont know) and could prove it was him who played from the account, you should prevail in a suit. In a civil suit you get do things like depositions and interrogatories that may help prove your case by forcing him to answer difficult questions. All these things cost money and time though, and would be difficult for someone to do without a lawyer. Also, each state has different rules of procedure you would have to follow.

    About the best I can do is suggest you speak with a local lawyer. The poker part of the case is the really small part, so you dont really need a poker expert; you need a collections expert. If you have trouble finding a lawyer to help, the PPA can suggest a few if you PM me your home town.

    You are in a tough situation prolax13. I wish I could help more. Good luck.

    Skallagrim

    Posted 3 months ago #

  4. prolax13
    Member

    thanks skallagrim. fyi, and i guess for my benefit, i live in new york / north caorlina, he lives in New Jersey and is going to school in Colorado. any information on the legality of poker in these states?

    Posted 3 months ago #

  5. Skallagrim
    Moderator

    "thanks skallagrim. fyi, and i guess for my benefit, i live in new york / north caorlina, he lives in New Jersey and is going to school in Colorado. any information on the legality of poker in these states?"

    Nothing here to change what I posted before. In NY offering poker online is probably illegal, but NY has no criminal law against playing. In NC, poker is definitely gambling thanks to a horrible recent court decision, but NC has no online law. NJ does have an unenforced (and probably unenforceable) online law, but thats his state not yours. Colorado law is complex, but there is no online law.

    In other words, I see nothing in these state gambling laws that would impede either a criminal or civil case against the guy who stole money from your account. My main worry was that YOU resided in a state where your play would be considered a crime, that does not appear to be the case. Good luck, and dont hesitate to ask for more info if needed.

    Skallagrim

    Posted 3 months ago #

  6. nmaiorana
    Member

    Question: Why would you give out your password to someone you have never met? It was wrong for him/her to abuse it, but not prudent for you to give it out.

    Posted 2 months ago #

  7. derringer007
    Member

    You should never ever give out your password. And if for any reason you do, Change the PW immediately. I'm sure this is a lesson learned. Good Luck prolax13. Let us know about the out come.

    Posted 2 weeks ago #

  8. PokerIowa89
    Member

    Full Tilt does not allow multiple users to use an account, and doesn't allow players to allow multiple users access to one account.

    Rule 2 under the Site Rules:

    Players are not allowed to create, use, or deposit to more than one account. Players who are found to have multiple accounts or to have allowed multiple users to access their account may face account suspensions or revocations, and forfeiture of their accumulated Full Tilt Points and real or play money balances.

    I don't think that much would come out of any course of action he took. FTP will most likely just bring up that rule and end their involvement there. They have no obligation to help seeing as how the password was given to the second player to access the account and to play on that account.

    Posted 1 week ago #

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